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  #21  
Old Jun 1, 2011, 07:05 PM
SheltieChe SheltieChe is offline
 
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yesterday at one of our classes behaviorist/trainer shared with us that Lactium
has been found to be useful for dogs with reactivity issues, especially like Leo for auditory and visual sensitivity.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU369/ItemDetail
She also used melatonin successfully for thunder phobias. This site also has L theanine reasonably priced.
We are ok with thunder, Leo is not reacting to noises outside of his crate and if provided with " thunderbone" i.e. marrow bone everything is fine. But I am willing to experiment with few herbals to see so I am buying some of Lactium to try as well.
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  #22  
Old Jun 1, 2011, 10:18 PM
SheltieChe SheltieChe is offline
 
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got some additional info
In Europe, they have used zylkene, active ingredient Lactium and Anxitane active ingredient L-Theanine for more nervous dogs, with success. She recommends Lactium for Leo to try first.
http://www.buyzylkene.co.uk/
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  #23  
Old Jun 1, 2011, 11:06 PM
Lahree Lahree is offline
 
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Thanks for the additional information. I still need to know whether the L-theanine "vegetarian" capsules are ok for Ellie. I got people pills at a health food store and it says, "l-Theanine, Vegetarian capsules." This is the only kind I could find and I wonder if there is anything in the ingredient list that would cause any problems. The label reads:

"L-Theanine 100mg. Other ingredients: Cellulose, water (vegetarian capsules), cellulose (yes, it is listed twice) magesium stearate and silica.


Second--Ellie weighs 30 pounds. What dosage should she get? I got 100 mg caps.
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  #24  
Old Jun 1, 2011, 11:30 PM
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OntarioSheltie OntarioSheltie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lahree View Post
OK, I got some l-theanine. I have two questions. I got people pills at a health food store and it says, "l-Theanine, Vegetarian capsules." This is the only kind I could find and I wonder if there is anything in the ingredient list that would cause any problems. The label reads:

"L-Theanine 100mg. Other ingredients: Cellulose, water (vegetarian capsules), cellulose (yes, it is listed twice) magesium stearate and silica.


Second--Ellie weighs 30 pounds. What dosage should she get? I got 100 mg caps.
Yes, the vegetarian capsules are fine. They're stated as vegetarian for people who are on special diets. The ingredients are benign.

Toby weighs 26-27 lbs. I give him 100 mg.
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  #25  
Old Jun 1, 2011, 11:46 PM
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OntarioSheltie OntarioSheltie is offline
 
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Magnesium Stearate

http://www.ehow.com/how_6595842_give...-stearate.html

Cellulose
http://www.best-dog-food-guide.com/c...-for-dogs.html

I can't find much info on silica, except that it seems to be used in most capsules. My guess would be that its what makes the capsule smooth and go down easier.

I just checked the Anxitane web site (the company that makes l-theanine tablets specifically for dogs) and Magnesium Stearate, cellulose and silica are listed as inactive ingredients.

http://www.virbacvet.com/Products/Vi...leTablets.aspx

Near the bottom of the page click on the link that says "Product Information Insert"
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Last edited by OntarioSheltie; Jun 1, 2011 at 11:52 PM.
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  #26  
Old Jun 2, 2011, 09:20 AM
SheltieChe SheltieChe is offline
 
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yes, the veg caps are totally safe. For dogs over 22 lbs it is ok to use 100 mg for dogs under 22 lbs 50 mg. I would start Ellie on 50 mg for beginning, you can always go up. My take on such supplements is they have very safe therapeutic margin use, practically no known side effects. At the very worst you will not see any effect.
As I mentioned before facility where my pups train specializes in "difficult dogs" the ones that other trainers/classes/ daycare won't accept... it is fun place to be I was glad to confirm info on L theanine and Lactium with them, I also have talked to other couple of owners who used Anxitane/ L theanine for while and said it was very helpful. The way I understand Anxitane/ L theanine is more help with anxiety issues and Lactium with poor impulse control/inability to cope with stress/ like sensitivity to sound or motion, that is why trainer says that Leo should try Lactium first.
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  #27  
Old Jun 2, 2011, 09:50 AM
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OntarioSheltie OntarioSheltie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltieChe View Post
yes, the veg caps are totally safe. For dogs over 22 lbs it is ok to use 100 mg for dogs under 22 lbs 50 mg. I would start Ellie on 50 mg for beginning, you can always go up. My take on such supplements is they have very safe therapeutic margin use, practically no known side effects. At the very worst you will not see any effect.
As I mentioned before facility where my pups train specializes in "difficult dogs" the ones that other trainers/classes/ daycare won't accept... it is fun place to be I was glad to confirm info on L theanine and Lactium with them, I also have talked to other couple of owners who used Anxitane/ L theanine for while and said it was very helpful. The way I understand Anxitane/ L theanine is more help with anxiety issues and Lactium with poor impulse control/inability to cope with stress/ like sensitivity to sound or motion, that is why trainer says that Leo should try Lactium first.
I have to look into Lactium, since Toby is anxious AND has poor impulse control.

Can L-theanine and Lactium be taken simultaneously?
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  #28  
Old Jun 2, 2011, 09:53 AM
Lahree Lahree is offline
 
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Thank you!!!
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  #29  
Old Jun 2, 2011, 10:13 AM
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OntarioSheltie OntarioSheltie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltieChe View Post
yesterday at one of our classes behaviorist/trainer shared with us that Lactium
has been found to be useful for dogs with reactivity issues, especially like Leo for auditory and visual sensitivity.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU369/ItemDetail
She also used melatonin successfully for thunder phobias. This site also has L theanine reasonably priced.
We are ok with thunder, Leo is not reacting to noises outside of his crate and if provided with " thunderbone" i.e. marrow bone everything is fine. But I am willing to experiment with few herbals to see so I am buying some of Lactium to try as well.
It sounds good but its expensive and not easy for me to get.

I'm not giving up on theanine yet but I've been looking into the pro's and cons of anti-anxiety medication. As it turns out, its 1/3 of the cost of natural supplements and may be more effective, for Toby anyway.

I'm going to see how Toby is in 2-3 months, then re-evaluate.
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  #30  
Old Jun 2, 2011, 11:27 PM
SheltieChe SheltieChe is offline
 
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While price of meds is always a factor, any anti- anxiety meds are bound to have tons of side effects and possibility of addictions, once started it is generally taken for years if not for life. My take on it, if I have to use them I would but it would be last resort and I would be desperate.
Use of herbals is a training tool which is basically harmless/ I am generalizing here since everything could be dangerous in stupid hands/. I use herbal same as Gentle Leader as training tool with goal to get off it as soon as I can. Let pup relax and at same time I will "build my bank account" reinforcing positive behavior I want to see.
and yes, one could use both anxitane and lactium together, although rule of thumb to start one med at a time and then add another.
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